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https://www.messerforum.net/threads/keidechse-gut-in-form.80939/

Germany specific Spyderco model?

Endlich macht sich ein Messerhersteller Gedanken über den Bedarf bzw. über die Bedürfnisse der deutschen Messerfreunde nach dem 1. April!
God bless You, Sal!
Der Clip war die absolut beste Erfindung an Messern während der letzten Jahrzehnte. Ich weiß nicht, wie es Euch geht, aber mich verlangt wieder nach einem "legalen" Folder mit Clip. Wir werden überflutet von "tactical" Einhandfoldern aber wir können diese nicht mehr mit gutem Gewissen tragen und ich persönlich möchte die Messer nicht in die Vitrine legen sondern brauche sie als tägliche Begleiter und Werkzeug.

Aus Sicherheitsgründen plädiere ich für eine feststellbare Klinge - keinen Slipjoint, lieber verzichte ich auf die einhändige Bedienbarkeit.

M.E. wäre ein z.B. mit Laser aufgebrachter schwarzer "Spider-Dot" ein guter Ersatz für ein "Spider-Hole"; möglicherweise könnte man den "Dot" auch etwas vertiefen als Zweihand-Öffnungshilfe.
Markenbezeichnung: "German Spiderco"

Gebt uns wieder "legale" Folder mit Clip!!!!

Waldmann

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Edit by Peter1960 - Sal hat keinen Zugung zur deutschen Sprache, bitte achte(t) darauf, wenn was am Herzen liegt. Ich mache hier nur ausnahmsweise einmal den Job eines Übersetzers!

I try to translate for Sal:

Finally, a knife producer asks for the need and wants for the German knive friends after the law changed per 1st April 2008!
Good bless you Sal!
Your clip was best invention during the last decades. I don't know what others think, I want a "legal" folder with clip. "Tactical" one hand folders overwhelm us, but we can't carry them in quiet conscience and I don't want my knives being save queens as I need them as tools daily.
For some safety reasons I vote for a locking blade - no Slipjoint, rather than that I do without one hand opening.
IMO a lasered black "Spider dot" is an alternative for "Spyder-Hole"; probably branded "German Spiderco"

Give us "legal" folders with clip back!
 
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Spyderco offers some nice one-hand-opening slipjoints yet.
On the other hand, there are no two-hand opening, lightweight Folders with clip and lock in the Spyderco catalogue and very few on the production market. Having commercial success in mind, this should be the better way for a Spyderco "German Penknife".

Everyone has his own Spyderco favourite he would like to see as a locking knife without one-hand-opening, but in the end it should be a well performing knife with a traditional appearance, lightweight and a little bit bigger - a 3 3/4 inch blade knife with not more than 100 gramm, flat grind.
100 gramm is something to carry in your pocket, but much less with a clip....
Sal, please give us a German Penknife.
I would prefer STAG - but most potential buyers won´t:hmpf:
 
Hi Sal,

since we met at the German mini show in Solingen (I hope there is another one coming up soon?) earlier this year, the situation has kind of cooled down. Although we still aren't allowed to carry these knives, I didn't hear about anybody being punished for carrying one of these "one hand fighting knives" :) (or am I mistaken:confused:)

That said, of course it is important for lots of people to obey the rules (as stupid as they may be). For most of them, the UKPK is a fine knife (although I wish the black variety weren't discontinued, but I know why this decision was made).

The rest will (and does) demand a locking folder. Since omitting the spyderhole is no option for you, that leaves only (1) the DPK hole variety, (2) a really small hole (don't think you like that idea either) on an existing folder of your choice

OR

(3) the idea of "hiding" the hole in the closed position, even more than in the Native I. That would basically require a completely new knife, plus some gadget to open the knife with TWO hands (like a nail nick or some grinding trick in the blade style itself).

This last alternative appears cool to me: still a full-blown spyderhole as trademark, but without (illegal :irre:) function; once opened, we have just a typical Spydie. Simple and very elegant solution!
(I personally do like the concept of (4) a "spydercircle" too, but thats just me.)

This hypothetical folder should be at least the size of the Stretch, since this knife will be for those who need a "workhorse" where a lock makes perfect sense. The other users will be fine with the smaller, yet functional UKPK or the upcoming Urban. These knives do work well with the slipjoint, and the tasks thrown at them mostly won't require a lock anyway. I don't like the idea of a slipjoint with a much longer blade than the UKPK, because the rising leverage forces would make it quite easy to close on your fingers (especially using it as the mentioned "workhorse").

An older idea, even as a "workaround" for our Spydies that now live in a drawer due to this latest cretinism of our politicians,was a "plug" that could be inserted in the holes, at least for volume models like the Endura/Delica, maybe made of G-10 or even CF :). But except for some do-it-yourself solutions, I didn't see this idea fly in the last months.


Not an easy decision to make for you and you team, but I appreciate it very much that you even try to give us a special knife. Sad enough it has come so far that you have to think about that in the first place :(

looking forward to meet you and your crew again in Solingen (maybe?)

Dennis

EDIT: Regarding the law itself: I have the feeling that the politicians didn't really want (or even were able to) to clearly express what they wanted to prohibit. In fact, they would have liked to ban something like "knives that seem to be dangerous and cause nothing but trouble anyway. It shall be possible for the police to get all these young criminals with big and ugly, yet invisible fighting knives in their pockets and confiscate them right away. Basically, use scissors!" More than one poltitcian stated that reasonable, right-minded adults won't get into trouble because of this law anyway. But we all know what that is worth... What I am trying to say here is that I am afraid we are looking for exact meaning where there just is none. As stated, difficult for cops (or knifemakers!) to make sense out of such a mess. But I am waaay OT here... sorry.
 
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Thanx much for the comments.

I have a question regarding "two hand open" with a lock.

Locks such as the ball bearing lock, liner lock, etc, can be inertia opened with a "flick of the wrist". How does this fit into the law. certainly a knife that can be inertia opened would be considered a "one hand open" or a gravity knife.

??

A larger UK is also an interesting notion.

sal
 
If you add a dent ball in the right size to the lock and the lock is of strength, that Inertia opening won't happen, I suppose; though I am able to flip all my liners with some training.
Another lock won't be bad on me. The average Forumian might think different. The possibility to close the knife one-handed is an advantage. That Para-Mili lock might fit all of the ideas noted above: No need for a dip to reach the hole or the lock, one-handed closing. I might think of a moved axis or a smaller blade height to fit the hole behind the scales.
 
[...]How does this fit into the law.[...]
Click to expand...

Well, all we can say is "we don't know".

The reason is that in fact no one knows for sure because there IS no ultimate interpretation. All these questions are still unanswered by the officials. And as I stated before, I assume intentionally so.
But as you said, I think too that a gravity knife (although this term is of no relevance in the german law AFAIK) would easily be interpreted as an one hand opening knife. (But again, these fine differences weren't of any interest when designing the law).

A ball-lock or liner-lock would have to drop out of the possible lock mechanisms, I'm afraid.

Dennis
 
Sal said:
certainly a knife that can be inertia opened would be considered a "one hand open" or a gravity knife.
Click to expand...
One hand open maybe. But since almost any knife CAN be opened with one hand either with a flick of the wrist or with the "biker-flip" (holding on to the blade and swinging) we assume that only knives MEANT to be opened one handed are considered "Einhandmesser" (one hand opening kinves). Which is supported by police officers and politicians saying that a knife without a hole/stud/disk is no longer a "Einhandmesser" even if one just removed the device.

So thats the intend of the law, if not the letter...

Gravity knives are illegal in germany. Knives are only considered to be gravity knives if the blade is locked open AND closed. So that you need to push a button/lever to unlock the knive.

Kilian
 
Oh as to a german knife: How about a fixed blade? They are still legal to carry without legal reason. Provided they are not weapons and the blade is less than 12cm long (4.72440945 inch).
So maybe a fixed blade knive with a 4 1/2 " blade, flat ground and with some sort of pocket sheath? Maybe a sheath like the one CRKT does for the Razel series. Very comfy.

Kilian
 
From my point of view a knife with a one-hand opening mechanism is more important in my every day use than a knife with a lock.
So many people are carrying small SAK's (the Slipjoints) and have no problem with it.
For example when i wanna cut some food or just open a letter i usually carry something in one hand so that i just have the other hand left to deal with the knife.

So my vote goes to the larger UKPK.:super:

Edit: Had the Idea of a Tenacious with VG-10 as a Slipjoint with full flat-ground blade.
 
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DaKern said:
From my point of view a knife with a one-hand opening mechanism is more important in my every day use than a knife with a lock.
So many people are carrying small SAK's (the Slipjoints) and have no problem with it.
For example when i wanna cut some food or just open a letter i usually carry something in one hand so that i just have the other hand left to deal with the knife.

So my vote goes to the larger UKPK.:super:

Edit: Had the Idea of a Tenacious with VG-10 as a Slipjoint with full flat-ground blade.
Click to expand...

But you are from Austria and not from Germany i think.
In Austria you don´t have such strict laws regarding knives as in Germany.


@ Sal:
I think it´s very difficult to find a specific german Spyderco model.
This because everyone has different enquirements on his knife as w e can read in this thread.

Some prefer the "one hand opening" and other prefer " a locked blade".
But this results in the different domains they use their knives.

For opening a letter there is no need for a bigger UKPK i think.
Why not using the UKPK or T-Mag.

At the moment i only knew a few modern folders which got a two hand mechanism and which are made for tough use.
The strategy should be to offer things that no one else has in his product range and be innovative.
In my opinion Spyderco knives are such knives for hard use.
This is what these knives were made for and it would be great when we could get a "legal Spyderco heavy user".

But that is just my opinion and as longer the discussion will last as more different whishes we will get....:)

best regards
 
O.k. I’m also from Austria, but I visit frequently Germany. So let’s give my statement.
I hear in the discussion generally 2 points of view.
The one – „One-hand-opening-without-lock“ and
the other – „Two-hand-opening-with-lock“
And I think this will be the disagreement until the end of all the time.

So make a pair of knives in the same style, size and appearance but with different constructions: „One-hand-opening-without-lock“ and „Two-hand-opening-with-lock“

A Back-Lock or Mid-Lock would be great, but please, without the spydy-typical backlash.
 
klingler said:
The one – „One-hand-opening-without-lock“ and
the other – „Two-hand-opening-with-lock“
Click to expand...
Since there are already knives like the UKPK avaliable from Spyderco, I think it's time for two-hand with lock and clip.

The idea of hiding the hole unter the handle (when closed) is very interesting, but an existing Spyderco with a circle instead of an actual hole in the blade would be easier (and imho faster) to build.
 
klingler said:
...So make a pair of knives in the same style, size and appearance but with different constructions: „One-hand-opening-without-lock“ and „Two-hand-opening-with-lock“...
Click to expand...

That´s a great Idea! :super:

Just bring a run of one special design (maybe a big one and a small one, like the Endura/Delica) with different types of locking and opening mechanisms. Similar to the Sage, that will come with different opening mechanisms. For example, a slipjoint with the spyderhole and another one for two handed opening and a locking mechanism with the hole only engraved (or a laser-cut-out Spyder in the hole :ahaa: :lechz:).

But to all writers in this thread that are talking about another slipjoint or a fixed blade, let me remain: We do allready have Spyderco slipjoint folders, as the UKPK or the Urban (ok, a bigger one could be fine for lunch etc.). And we do have allready Spyderco fixed-blade knifes with a blade < 12cm. What we do not allready have is a lightweight knive that has to be opened with to hands, a secure lock and a clip.
 
Sal said:
[....]
Locks such as the ball bearing lock, liner lock, etc, can be inertia opened with a "flick of the wrist". How does this fit into the law. certainly a knife that can be inertia opened would be considered a "one hand open" or a gravity knife. [....]
Click to expand...


Safest way to go is to make sure it can not be flicked open. A Midlock or backlock will work.On a Liner lock, the detent ball in the liner needs to hold the Blade with a force that prevents the flipping.

Pulling a Ball back could be seen as one handed opening, that is right, but the law is not clear on that.


regards, Alex
 
MojoMC said:
Since there are already knives like the UKPK avaliable from Spyderco, I think it's time for two-hand with lock and clip.
Click to expand...
I'll second that. This is a place where Spyderco hasn't gone before, has it? I used to vote for the one-hand opening, but after cutting some thick cardboard and other hard stuff with my Buck 110 I really appreciated the lock. Just 2 cents.

Take care,
Carsten
 
MojoMC said:
Since there are already knives like the UKPK avaliable from Spyderco, I think it's time for two-hand with lock and clip.
Click to expand...

Um, I´d suggest... Police with clip and a notch instead of the hole :super:
This would be one of the nicest knives I´ve ever seen.
 
cugar said:
Safest way to go is to make sure it can not be flicked open. A Midlock or backlock will work.On a Liner lock, the detent ball in the liner needs to hold the Blade with a force that prevents the flipping.
Click to expand...

As has been quoted in another thread, even lockbacks (frontlocks) can be flicked open. I can do it with my Endura, Manix, Crossbill, and with the Native I used to have. Any knife with a smooth action and a certain heft to the blade can be inertia-opened with the right technique.

It should be sufficient to have a knife that is not by design meant for inertia opening.

Ookami
 
How about a Rookie-blade without hole, backlock and, of course, titanium liners:D

I´m in for two!

Thanks,

Tom
 
I would like to see a Military (but don't call it Military!) with a sliplock and trouser-friendly scales (carbon, g10 without checkering, ..) as a supersized UK Penknife.

... or some kind of slim and lightweight two-hand backlock with clip.
 
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