Der Clan des BÖKER-Sport

[boogerbrain]

@Steve182 - here we go: My Gustav Voss

It's in pretty good condition, I'd say; it's not unused but far from being worn out. The handles are made of jigged bone - very nice, no chips or other damages. The lanyard eye is placed on the "bottom" (the bigger end) - most of the Boker/Böker knives use to have it "on the top", right? And it's not centered, it's placed more towards the can opener-/blade side of the knife, and has almost no ornaments on it. - unlike your 582.

The main blade has some minor scratches, but is still quite pointy; of course it was sharpened; I'd say, a few times.

@Abu - one thing that I don't know: Is your Voss also made from stainless steel? This one is, and I have the impression that this was a special feature at that time, because "Rostfrei" is stamped on the main blade, the small blade, the bottle opener, and the can opener. I think it's the same as it is with the 582: Stainless was something special those days ( I think we all know that Voss didn't survive WW II; I'd say this knive was made somewhen in the 1930s), so they made sure that it'd be recognized ...

The smaller blade is almost completely unused, as it seems, and to me it looks like it wasn't even sharpened once.

All the tools are tight, no wobble, nothing. The backsprings have a good snap, I have problems to open the bottle opener because the spring is very strong (and my thumbnail is weak, apparently ). The only tool besides the main blade that seems to have been used is the can opener - but only once or twice: There are marks, but a heavy used tool will definitely look different.

 

[boogerbrain]

//gelöscht//

 

[Steve182]

@boogerbrain That's a real pretty Voss humpback you got there, I love the jigging bone on it, I would say it is in near mint condition. I did not know the Voss factory was out of business after the war ? @Abu So indeed makes this a prewar knife.. @boogerbrain if you ever want to part from it, give me a PM, still looking for this one 😉🔪

 

[Steve182]

@Abu @boogerbrain

It seems Gustav Voss was still active after the war, so your humpback could also be post war.

The Gustav Voss Taschenmesserfabrik (1901) / Messerfabrik (1929) company traces its beginnings prior to 1901. G. Voss initially specialized in manufacturing high quality pocket knives. The company was located on Augustastraße 20 in 1901. The Fox head (fuchskopf) trademark was registered in 1916. 1920s advertisements in Messer und Schere marketed "fine pocket knives." During the Third Reich era, Voss was manufacturing Early era SA/NSKK daggers as well as Hitler Youth knives. By the 1940s and 1950s Voss was advertising the sale of pocket knives and cutlery.

 

[boogerbrain]

So far, I didn't have any hints that Voss was active after WW II - but you live and learn, right? Maybe @cut has more information about this topic ... here he has posted something regarding Gustav Voss (post #10), but nothing about any activity after the war.

 

[boogerbrain]

@Steve182 - I tried this afternoon to find something to prove what you've said: "By the 1940s and 1950s Voss was advertising the sale of pocket knives and cutlery.", but I didn't find anything

1940s may be possible (or even likely), but I found nothing after WW II ... would you please link the ads you've been mentioning in your post? All I knew so far was that Voss "died" in WW II, so I'm very interested (and curious) ...

 

[Steve182]

@boogerbrain Yes you are right, it is very hard to find info or advertisements regarding Gustav Voss factory in Solingen.. the only thing I found thusfar was on a site for militairy daggers:

Gustav Voss, Solingen | Lakesidetrader (https://www.lakesidetrader.com/Education/Maker-Mark/Gustav-Voss-Solingen/index.php)

thanks again @boogerbrain for sharing photos on your beautiful Voss "182 pattern knife" 👍🏻

We keep on searching and meanwhile other forum members may have some more info on Gustav Voss ?

 

[Abu]

Thanks @boogerbrain & @Steve182 for the very interesting discussion about VOSS and it’s continued business after WW2. Regularly I would trust on Carters „German knives…“ as it seems to me very profounded. He mentioned nothing about those time after 1945. I wouldn’t go with a simple hint on a dealers website, but we might see…..

Here is a pic of my VOSS, which I checked again. No stamps about steel, so it should be carbonsteel. Though it shines glossy without pitting after all it’s years. Nearly mint and of highest quality.

Abu

 

[cut]

Für mich ist das Thema "humpback" - "Sportmesser" nur ein Randgebiet meiner Faszination für Messer. Meine Sammlung dazu ist an einer Hand abzuzählen.
Abu kann uns sicherlich einen Überblick verschaffen, von wievielen konkurrierenden Herstellern "humpback" Sportmesser-Modelle in seinem / diesem prosperierenden thread inzwischen nachgewiesen worden sind. Der nicht mehr existierende, renommierte Solinger Hersteller Anton Wingen Jr. gehört nach meines Kenntnis bisher nicht dazu.

Bei einem Informationsaustausch berichtete mir der Blankwaffen-Experte James Brown von Messerzeichnungen aus den 1930er Jahren, die als Entwürfe zur Ergänzung des Herstellprogramms von Anton Wingen Jr. angefertigt worden sind. Die Skizzensammlung zeigt u.a. diese Taschenmessermodelle:

Im Skizzenbuch vermerkte 4-stellige Artikelnummern passen zu mir bekannten Musterbüchern dieses Herstellers, jedoch kennen wir bisher keinen Katalog oder einen anderweitigen Nachweis, ob diese Messer jemals in Serie gefertigt worden sind.

Grüße
cut

 

[Abu]

von Messerzeichnungen aus den 1930er Jahren, die als Entwürfe zur Ergänzung des Herstellprogramms von Anton Wingen Jr. angefertigt worden sind. Die Skizzensammlung zeigt u.a. diese Taschenmessermodelle:

Danke @cut - und wieder eines! Mit dieser Skizze nun auf Schatzsuche zu gehen, das hat schon einen besonderen Reiz! Mal sehen, ob sich das reale Stück irgendwann findet.
Überhaupt tauchen immer mal wieder neue Hersteller auf und ich habe die Liste unten ergänzt. Kürzlich wurde ein F.W. Buntenbach angeboten, ein bis dahin mir völlig unbekannter Hersteller aus Solingen.



Nur Solinger, sonst ggf. vermerkt:

Heinr. Böker & Co.
Böntgen & Sabin (Bonsa)
F. W. Buntenbach
Wilhelm Busch Söhne
DORKO Stahlwarenfabrik Dorten GmbH & Co.
Fernando Esser & Co., Remscheid
Filus Solingen (Agencias Modernas, Mexiko / J. J. Marxen, Hamburg) vmtl Hersteller Böker
Graef & Schmidt WELKUT / wahrscheinlich von R. Klaas gefertigt (G&S US-Impoteur)
Hartkopf & Co. (Teufelskerle)
Friedr. Herder Abr. Sohn (Pik-As)
Richard Abr. Herder
Gebr. Hoppe (u.a. Auftragsfertigung DELSTONE)
Jowika Stahlwarenfabrik Weber & Altenbach
Robert Klaas
Hugo Köller
Gebr. Krusius
Friedrich Olbertz
Gebr. Richartz & Söhne (Wal)
J. A. Schmidt & Söhne
Gustav Voss
Wilh. Wagner
Weyersberg
A. Wingen Jr.

Abu

 

[Myron]

This thread continues to amaze me! Of the 22 makers listed above, I have representatives of maybe 8. (I am looking for a good specimen of Bonsa if anyone has an extra they wouldn't mind selling.

One question -- how does the group feel about the "shallow" humpbacks? I'm not sure if they count in this group or not, but I have a couple, so I thought I'd ask. I have a Fernando Esser (prancing horse in archway tang stamp) with Phillips head screwdriver, and I have a Richartz (spouting whale tang stamp) with a corkscrew and awl setup that are reversed from the normal order.

Here are a few pictures. Except for their back side tools, the two knives appear almost identical. What do you think?

Myron

 

[Abu]

Hello @Myron, thanks for your contribution, it’s very welcome! Never seen before and wasn’t aware of another type of „shallow Humpbacks“ with that slight variation. So feel free for more detail informations if possible. For example a pic showing both regular und shallow for size comparison.
Question: any idea when they were marketed?

Abu

 

[Myron]

Hello @Abu,

I don't know much about them unfortunately. The can opener implements certainly seem pre-war, but then again Böker used this style into the 1960's I believe. The Phillips head screwdriver on the Esser would indicate 1950's or later. So I guess I'll go with 1950's-60's?

Here's a couple pictures of them next to conventional humpbacks. I'd love to know more about these, so if any other members have information, please share.

Myron

 

[Myron]

Left to right: Böker full hump 7593R with early can opener, Richartz shallow hump with front awl, Esser shallow hump with Phillips, Esser full hump sportmesser with Phillips.

 

[Myron]

Greetings, humpback enthusiasts.

Here's a fun Böker I picked up recently. It's a 182 with 7593 Tree Brand blade etch that exhibits both pre- and post-war characteristics. For example, it uses the pre-war wedge-shaped spacer construction and pre-war shield, but has a tang stamp that I associate with post-war 182's and later shields. If it is a pre-war knife, then the 7593 blade etch is very unexpected. Does anyone know when the 7593 model designation first appeared? I would be grateful for any insights other messerforum members might have!

Myron


Here is the 182/7593 next to my red pyralin-scaled 7594 (which itself is another recent addition for me):

Here are its front and back tang stamps:

Here is its Tree Brand blade etch with 7593 just visible below:

And here is the blade well, showing the old wedge-shaped spacer. I need to get in there and clean it up a bit!

 

[kanji]

Nachdem ich lange standhaft war hat nun die akute Solingeritis mir auch ein Böker Sportmesser beschert.
Ein Modell mit Delrinbeschalung und deutlichen Gebrauchsspuren.
Vom Alter würde ich es in den 50er- 60er Jahren einordnen.

 

[Myron]

Beautiful 182, @kanji! I agree with your date estimate, but would put it toward the earlier end of that range due to its "molded bone stag" scales and decorated bail. By the way, I am not certain but I don't think molded bone stag was made from Delrin. Happy to be proven wrong by those who know better, of course.

Congratulations on this beautiful humpback Böker camp knife!

Myron

 

[kanji]

By the way, I am not certain but I don't think molded bone stag was made from Delrin.

wobei in dem Böker Buch von Punchard & Ray ein identisches Messer mit Kunststoff (Delrin) Schalen abgebildet ist

siehe 2. Foto in meinem Beitrag
Beschreibung Nachkriegsmodell mit Kunststoffgriff

ich bin damit von Delrin ausgegangen

 

[kanji]

Noch ein Foto mit Tageslicht

 

[Abu]

Hi @kanji Willkommen im endlosen Sammelbecken der Sportmesser!
Wie auch @Myron fallen mir die in der Tiefe schön strukturierten Griffschalen auf, besonders gut auf dem letzten Bild zu sehen. Und natürlich der Bügel mit den Mustern, habe ich nur bei Messern vor dem 2.WK.
Ein schöner Fund!

Abu