Two-Hand-Operated Locking Knife for the German market

Danke Peter 1960 and thanks Sal,

I'm really excited to see this thread reappear!
The idea of a "german" spyderco is something I pondered quite often.
And in my conclusion I rejoin TimB.
If it shall represent something "german", the historic "leaping cat knife" should be the model to be used as a basis.
It has the two hand opening, a tough back lock, about 8cm bladelength, but until now it never had a clip.
Also known as "Kaiser Wilhelm"knife it has a over 100 year history and should well merit to be represented in the ethnic
series for instance. For the steel I'm sure you 'll make an excellent choice.

Well, just my 0,50€

niccolo
 
historic "leaping cat knife" ... Also known as "Kaiser Wilhelm"knife it has a over 100 year history and should well merit to be represented in the ethnic series for instance.
I would love that too. Titanium handled "Cat Knife" and a good blade steel, that would fit me right :) But isn't the Design a registered trademark? Shouln't just be copied ...
 
Thank you for letting us share to this great brainstorming.

The design should be a Spyderco.

I have the Manix CTS-BD30P and the Spyderco Dragonfly Foliage Green G10.

Both knives are reliable. A merger both two would please me personally.

A Manix with Backlock or a big Dragonfly. I like the Ball Bearing Lock but it´s too simple to open the blade with one hand.

Please no Framelock. A Liner lock or Backlock would be great.

Backelit-Scales or German Oak ;-).

Niolox would be great.
 
Hi,

I´d like a knife with a big and strong blade like the ENDURA 4.
The blade should be ca. 100 mm long and 3-3.5 mm thick,
with a full-flat ground. The blade steel VG-10 or CPM S30-V.
Leaf-shaped.

The handle should be light weight with FRN scales and
skeletonized stainless steel liners.

Deep carry clip.

Big (100 mm blade), strong (3-3.5 mm) and light weight (100 g)!
 
Hi All,

I'd like to thank Peter for starting this project. I'd also like to apologise for my lack of German.

I believe that the blade will have to be almost completely submerged into the handle except for a small area for two hand open. We'll also probably want to use a flat ground blade to keep the blade light enough to prevent inertia opening. Perhaps something along the lines of the "Roadie" which uses a "DoubleDent" for opening and a small hole only to serve the trademark requirement.

A deep pocket wire clip is not a problem and I agree that it is a good choice.
I am not opposed to a German design, but we'll have to agree on the design. If succesful, more designs are possible.

I think that the first "decision" would be on blade length. Then lock type. Then pattern.

It has also been suggested that we also consider a one hand open Slipit but with a longer blade than the UK requirements.

Any and all ideas are welcome and thanx much for your assistance in this project.

sal
 
Hi Sal,

I think the Military is to long for EDC use.
How about a 80-85 mm blade. You can nearly cut everything edc normal with that blade length, but it is still society friendly.

Also I would like the blade shape of the Gale Bradley.

For the handle I think you will cover the market with G10, Titanium and Carbon. FRN Scales are not necessary. The Knife should have liners for stabilisation and a 2,5-3 mm thick blade. For the lock, I would suggest the normal linerlock.

EDIT: I think it is important to you that the blade has a hole, so it can be recognized as a spyderco. In my oppinion we should than give the blade a hole. A normal sized big hole, where it always has been. BUT than we would need to invent a new locktype, which locks the blade also in the closed stadium. Like a buttonlock you have to push with the right hand, during you open the blade on the hole with the left hand. This buttonlock than also locks the blade in its open stadium and you have to push it again to close the knife.

Of cource there should be enough friktion build in, so the blade can't open from it's own weight, if the buttenlock is pushed.
 
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...
I think that the first "decision" would be on blade length. Then lock type. Then pattern.
...
sal
Hi Sal.

Thanks for the hint on this thread.

As I suggested on the Spyderco Forum. We nede a two-hand-opening knife in Denmark too, so happy to see, that the Germans are in on it too, as you are enough people in Germany, to make up for a market.

I would like a blade length of 8 cm (3-3,25 inches), lock types that can work with the Danish knife law would be the linerlock or integral lock (framelock) or backlock, all with good detent. I'd like the pattern of an existing in-house design from Spyderco. Stretch, Native, Sage, Caly, Manix.

Mikael.
 
I would also prefer a rather large blade in the 3.5'' to 4'' range. No sabre grinds please. A fully flat grind would be most welcome.

But what is most important to me is the lock type. When talking about a two-hand operated locking knife for the German market I think it is essential that two hand operation is not just part of a marketing scheme but actually required to open the knife. There has been some legal hassle in Germany recently with knives that are two-handed only by design, e.g. sport a prominent nailnick, but can be flicked open with one hand quite easily. If Spyderco undergoes the trouble of designing a knife with regard to the legal restrictions in Germany, there should be no doubt left that it meets the legal requirements in full. A strong and tight lockback probably would do the job.

To me it would add to the urge to buy such a knife if there were some upscale features like carbon fiber scales or a fancy blade steel (e.g. niolox).

This is a great project. I surely hope it can be brought to fruition this time.
 
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Blade: Round about 3" blade length is quite fine for my personal needs.

Design: I am sorry to say, but the design of the roadie is equal to a lot of knives you can already buy here in Germany. I would prefer the younger and more ergonomic design of the more "typical" Spydercos. I like the design of "J03" at the beginning of this discussion very much.
Something like the roadie has no unique selling point imho.
Something with ergonomic design and legal to carry (because of slip joint) you have with the UKPK.
For both (two hand non locking), you have the Pingo.
But something with a fine tip and good ergonomics and legal (because of two hand opening mechanism) is hard to find. In contrast to some other users here, I like the negative blade angle a lot. But that is personal preference again.

Lock: I prefer the frame lock too.

Best wishes:encouragement:

Michael
 
Hi Mikael,

Welcome to the Messerforum.

On the design, I wasn't thinking of a design like the Roadie, only the double dent opening method as a way of grabbing the blade. the Roadie was designed to a very specific rule (airline travel).

If we can nail down a design "style", we would want to make two sizes as we've found that one size rarely fits all. The smaller version would work for countries requiring more restrictive blade lengths.

Let's begin with 9cm as a versionof the "larger" model. I believe there is a length / width requirement in an attempt to not make the blade too thin (stabbing). What would that minimum width be for a 9cm blade length?

I would prefer a full flat grind for performance. Ergos would have to be good, which we try to do with all of our designs. Do we want a finger choil?

I think we'd probably have to go with a lockback of some type because we can put a strong spring in it to keep the blade closed. Linerlocks, RIL's (Reeve Integral Locks, sometimes called "framelocks") have a minimum detent keeping the blade closed and are often esily flicked open, especially if partially opened, which would be a "no-no" for this model. I can begin a design this weekend. Once we get a pattern down, we can discuss materials.

Need info on finger choil preference and blade width.

Then we can show the drawing here and modify from there.

sal
 
wow, great, we move into gear :super:

a full flat grind would be great! maybe the width-to-lenght-ratio of the hungarian folder could be a good idea for a 90 mm blade EDC?
i also like finger choils :)

thank you Sal! :D

Thomas
 
Hi Peter,

A blade width poll would be useful, but there is also a minimum width/length for German law that we don't want to break.

sal
 
[...] there is also a minimum width/length for German law that we don't want to break.



There´s nothing like that in Germany.

In the past, rules like that applied for switchblades (automatic knives), but even there it has been deleted from the law.
 
Sal, one more thing ...

Today, during my running training, I dwelled on this future and special knifedesign and I had a sudden inspiration:

Recently we heard that even a Byrd Tern, a slipjoint knife, was confiscated in Germany. Well, we all know this knife doesn't break the German knife law in no way at all, but one of the reasons why it was confiscated is an interesting formulation - "Because it does have a locking mechanism, the blade can only be closed against drag/mechanical force." That's bullshit, we know it, but it happened!

So, what would be if a slipjoint knife would have a separate locking mechanism? Everyone and his dog could easily see the difference between a slipjoint and locking mechanism. And as second benefit the knife user could decide between locking his blade or not, depending on what and where he wants do cut material.

I have no clue, if such a design already exists or not, but I know you listen to all ideas and you could design it :steirer:
 
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