Two-Hand-Operated Locking Knife for the German market

Dear Sal and fellow knife nuts,
I'm sorry about excavating this thread, but since I fell in love with Spyderco knives lately (I'm now proud owner of my first Spydie, namely a UKPK), this thread came to my mind. After carrying the UKPK for a while now, I can only say that I simply love everything about this blade. The only negative aspect is the missing lock. I agree with Sal about simply submerging the hole into the handle, in something like a Native or a Delica (sizewise). I just wanted to know, is this whole project still active? I'd love to expand my collection with a locking german-legal Spyderco ;)
Kind regards,
Smokehead
 
Smokehead, what this project concerns we all are "on hold" for a long time :loyal:
 
Hey Peter,
Do you know why ? I'd understand if Sal/Spyderco had better things to do, but the prototype looked kind of promising, didn't it?
 
Sorry for slow response. We've been traveling a great. Still trying to come up with the best solution. I still feel that the double dent approach at the tip is the best, but nobody liked the way it looked. Lately I've pulled out the old "Solo" designs and am thinking about them without the lobe.

Most locking knives can be inertia opened, which is one hand. Making the spring strong enough and the blade light enough to make this impossible is very difficult, especially on a larger knife blade.

I'm still interested and still working on it, but a run will be an investment of over $100K and I'd like to make sure that we have a decent chance of success. We'll have few sales outside of Germany.

sal
 
Hi all,

It seems that the interest in the THO model for the Geman market as gone away. So for now, I will plan on putting the project on hold. Thanx for the participation.

sal
 
It seems that the interest in the THO model for the Geman market as gone away.

Hi Sal,

I don't think "interest" is the point here. I'm pretty sure, that the interest in a "legal to carry knife" from spyderco is still there.
The thing is, the discussion hit a point where the expactations in this project split. There are people who want a more traditional design, but others want something new. Then there are people who want it to be a cheaper knife and others want it super high quality. And then there are people who want the knife to be designed by a german knifemaker and others who want a pure spyderco design. And these where just some examples.

Obviously, you can't make everyone happy. So, I think, everything has been said; the rest of this project is up to you. If you come to the conclusion, that it's just too risky, well then abandon the project.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the discussion died, because of frustration over different opinions/tastes. That happens. But the information is still there.


Simon Leineweber
 
Is it possible to combine a backlock with a "halfstop" (or better a 120° stop ;) )
Then you can only flip the knife half and have to complete the opening with two Hands.
In combination with a small or "half covered" spyderhole it should confirm the german law.

only for statistic my two cents:
(Steel request: blue paper steel, Nilox or M390)
(Design: THX3 is not bad, Native will work, but a "advanced" Calypso would be my favorit)
 
Just to mention, I´m very happy with all the Spyderco-SlipIts, which are (not only in the UK) also legal in Germany. Would, of course, appreciate premium-versions (sprint runs) of the UKPK or the Urban.
 
Just to mention, I´m very happy with all the Spyderco-SlipIts, which are (not only in the UK) also legal in Germany. Would, of course, appreciate premium-versions (sprint runs) of the UKPK or the Urban.

Are they? Yes. Maybe.

However, the administrative court VG Wiesbaden (Urt. v. 08.02.2016, Az.: 6 K 1456/15.WI) declared that the Böker Griploc is a "Einhandmesser" in terms of § 42a Abs. 1 Nr. 3 WaffG. They implied that nearly all knives that allow single handed opening can be regarded as "Einhandmesser" and that there is no need for a locking mechanism.

The second headnote of the verdict:

"Auf eine „Arretierung“ für die Beurteilung eines Messers als Einhandmesser kommt es nicht an. Entscheidend ist vielmehr, dass durch die Technik des Messers – hier Umfassen des Griffes ein Rückklappen der Klinge nicht mehr möglich ist und damit ein Einklappen des Messers bei normalem Gebrauch verhindert wird."

(rough) translation:
"A locking one hand opening knife [in terms of § 42a Abs. 1 Nr. 3 WaffG] doesn't need to have a locking mechanism that snaps in. It is sufficient that the design of the knife prevents folding the knife in normal use - here by putting your hand around the knife's grip and thereby preventing the blade to fold back."

Now we all know that the Böker Griploc has a rather advanced mechanical system that works like a temporal lock whereas the Spyderco slip joints are held open by the force of the spring and mainly by your index finger. However the VG Wiesbaden also says that:

"So erscheint es dem Gericht auch zweifelhaft, ob der Gesetzgeber nicht auch Rasiermesser, wie sie von Barbieren benutzt werden, unter die Definition des § 42a Abs. 1 Ziffer 3 1. Alternative WaffG fallen lassen wollte, wenn das Messer durch eine entsprechende Handumschließung, in dem Fall Festhaltung durch Daumen, "feststellbar" ist."

The court thinks that even razor knifes are "Einhandmesser" in terms of the law because they can be "locked" by holding them open with your thumb. The same would apply for Spyderco's slip joints and ultimately any knife that can be opened with one hand and that allows you to hold the blade open by it's design.

Now this is only one verdict of a lower administrative court but it shows a trend and will be considered in future trials. It backs up those who said that the Spyderco slip joint knives are "Einhandmesser" in the past.


I won't risk this kind of trouble and thus I would appreciate it if Spyderco asks for a "Feststellungsbescheid" or - better yet - releases a two hand opening locking folder.


I would suggest a not too heavy (max 100g) knife with a blade length of at least about 7cm. That could fill a gap that we have between the light knives with tiny blades and the big but heavy knives we have in the two hand opening category in Germany today.
 
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